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What was your big story? What was your big, giant, Washington story? So your tech career did not last as long as mine? We did that, but it was clear that I was more of a general assignment reporter in San Jose and that’s sort of what I morphed into and then eventually moved over to politics and the style sector. I was one of the Washington-based people. He seemed to think I was a business and tech reporter, which. I worked for the Merc for three years, and because my stories had, like, job titles and company names, like David Ignatius who was then the AMA for business, who you knew. I was just a newbie to technology I just came from San Jose. Well, I think you were at the Journal then. So first, let’s talk about your background. It was a great quote it’s a really great quote.Īnyway, let’s talk about this book. It’s at the bottom of the column if you go look at it. And I actually also quoted you in a column I did for the New York Times this week when you had an interview with President Trump about social media and, “We’re gonna take my social media away.” Which you talked about, which I thought was fascinating. And what’s so interesting is that you had a piece in the New York Times just this weekend about sort of the conflagration between the NFL and the president, so it hits all your buttons, essentially.Ĭolliding, exactly.

You know, I do want to talk about the tech element and everything else of it, but I want to explain how you got to this. Mark Leibovich: I am so glad to be here, Kara.Īnd we have so much to talk about besides sportsball. He is the chief national correspondent now for the New York Times Magazine and he’s author of a new book called “Big Game: The NFL in Dangerous Times.” I am so thrilled to have you here. Kara Swisher: Today in the red chair is an old friend of mine, actually, from the Washington Post, Mark Leibovich.

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Below, we’ve shared a lightly edited transcript of Kara’s full conversation with Mark. You can listen to Recode Decode wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts and Overcast. “You had these billionaires who can just print money who obviously are just doing great, but they’re just so, ‘What’s Donald going to say next? How do we stop him? How do we put a Band-Aid on this problem?’ You got a window into just the squeamishness and also the small-mindedness and the short-term thinking that they respond to crises like this with.” “It was very revealing to hear the level to which people just flipped out,” he said of the tape. In the new book, he got a surprising amount of access to those owners, and obtained a secret tape recording of them talking about the protests of players like former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, a vegan African-American with an afro from San Francisco - in other words, a perfect bingo for Donald Trump’s culture war, Leibovich said. “I think it will survive, but I think it will survive because of the greatness of the sport and a lot of the players in it, but in spite of the people who run it and own it.” “I’m not one of these people like Malcolm Gladwell that says we’re not going to recognize it in 25 years,” he added. “The NFL is like a drug lord and football is like crack.

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“Seventy-seven of the top 100 rated TV shows in America last year were NFL games,” he said. But Leibovich says the game will still be big business for a long time to come. They include declining TV ratings as more people prefer to watch clips online increased awareness of the permanently traumatic brain injuries tackling can cause and, of course, President Trump, whose objections to players protesting racial injustice during the national anthem dominated the headlines last season.

Those dangers to the National Football League are numerous.

On the latest episode of Recode Decode, Kara Swisher spoke to New York Times Magazine national correspondent Mark Leibovich, who has just released a new book called “Big Game: The NFL in Dangerous Times.”